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Hugh fitz Osbern
circa 1080 - circa 1139
Hugh was probably born somewhere around 1080 (1), the son of Osbern fitz Richard (2)(3) and Nesta (6). His only known sibling was a brother Turstino (3).
He married Eustachia de Say (7), and they had two (known) sons. The eldest, and Hugh's heir, was Osbern (aka Osbert) (11)(12)(13)(14)(20), who was also sometimes known as Osbern de Say (18) after his mother. Osbern's younger brother, was Hugh (also called Hugh de Say after his mother) (11)(15)(16)(17).
Hugh was dead by 1139 at the latest, and possibly by as early as 1137 (4)(10)
Brief details of his children:
- Osbern, the eldest son and heir of Hugh, may still have been a minor at the time of his father's death in the late 1130s. Soon afterwards he founded priory of Westwood with his mother. He is not known to have married, and certainly didn't have any children living at the time of his death in 1185.
- Hugh has his own page.
, makes the same claim, citing "Collections towards the history of the county of Hereford" by Duncumb, vol 1, page 233.
- This is a rough estimate based on the known lineage between Richard Scrob and Margaret de Say. The succession of the intermediate generations is known, but the dates of birth are not. I have simply estimated the most likely rough dates of birth for these intermediate generations, using the few known dates of events in their lives as a guide. It is open to modification in the light of further evidence.
Specifically in Hugh's case: His mother Nesta's parents are believed to have married around 1057, and her father died in 1063, placing her birth around 1060, so it is unlinkely that a she would be having children much before 1080. Hugh is also known to have be active as early as about 1100 (3), and to have died in the late 1130s (4)(10).
- Complete Peerage, Volume 9, page 257, states that Osbern Fitz Richard made a grant of land to Worcester Priory during the time of Henry I, and this was confirmed and added to by his son Hugh. It cites "Registrum Prioratus Beatae Mariae Wigorniensis", fo. 9a, Camden Society, 1865. I haven't been able to confirm this source yet, but it must refer to the same land as the confirmation which was published in Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum (4), and/or one of the two in the Pipe Roll Society's publication of the Worcester Chartulary(5)(6).
- Dugdale's "Monasticon", volume 2, page 422, num XIII, sub Pershore Monastery, conatins a grant witnessed by :
Hugone filio Osberni filii Ricardi, et Turstino fratre ejus
This is noted as being Harleian Charter, 50, B, 22. The "Catalogue of seals in the department of manuscripts in the British Museum", volume 2, describes this same charter (no. 5991) and dates it to circa 1100. (Eyton, in his "Antiquities of Shropshire", claims that Hugh was flourishing from c1100, so probably based that claim on this same charter.)
- Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum 1066-1154, Volume 3, page 357, entry 964, sub Worcester Cathedral and See, is a "Confirmation of royal. episcopal, and other charters", which includes:
"Concedo et confirmo cartam Osberti filii Ricardi et Hugonis filii ipsius Osberti et Osberti filii ipsius Hugonis de Burastona cum ecclesia de Dyderenhyl et salina in Wich et alia salina viginti solidorum"
This is dated, by the mention of other people in the (very long) confirmation, as either December 1137-May 1138, or March-June 1139, most likely at the end of April 1139.
- "The Cartulary of Worcester Cathederal Priory (Register I)", Darlington, Pipe Roll Society 1962-63, no. 146. The abstract reads:
Notification by Hugh fitz Osbern that he has confimred to the monks, the gift of Boraston (Co. Salop) granted by his father (Osbert fitz Richard), which they are to hold as he holds it of King Henry with sake and soke, toll and team etc., and that he himself has added that it shall pay geld on 1 hide only, and has given to the monks all services due from Boraston to Burford (Co. Salop) and the hundred and hallmoot and forfeitures incurred by men of Boraston in the hallmoot of Burford in pleadings concerning robbery begun by an outsider.
- "The Cartulary of Worcester Cathederal Priory (Register I)", Darlington, Pipe Roll Society 1962-63, no. 148. The abstract reads:
Confirmation by Hugh fitz Osbert to the monks of his father's grant of Boraston and the church of Doddderhill to which he adds, for the souls of his father Osbert and his mother Nest, one saltpan at Droitwich worth 20s. Early 12th century.
- After his death, Hugh's son Osbern founded Westwood priory along with his mother Eustachia de Say (8), and they both entered into an agreement concerning a cemetary in Cotheridge (9)
- Dugdale's "Monasticon", volume 6, page 1004, num I, sub Priory of Westwood, conatins an entry which reads:
Carta Regis Henrici Secundi.
Henricus Dei gratia rex Angliæ et dux Nor. et Aquit. et comes Andeg. achiepiscopis, &c. salutem. Sciatis me concessisse, quod in loco de Westwud in Wogorniensi comitatu sit conventus sanctimonialium de ecclisia Fontis Ebrausi, et quod in pace, libere et honorifice, integre, et plenarie, habeant omnia sua tenementa quæ Osbertus filius Hogonis, et Eustachia de Say mater sua dederunt in elemosinas ecclisie Fontis Ebraudi, scilicet Westwudam ad assartandam, et ad parcum, si volueruint, faciendum. Et Cruchiam et salinarum de Wichio et ecclisiam de Coderuggia cum omnibus pertinentiis suis. Concedo etiam et hac præsenti carta mea confirmo, ut eædem sanctimoniales de Westwude habeant et teneant omnia hæc prædicta, et omnia alia quæ adhuc adipisci poterint in perpetuam elemosinam, cum omnibus pertinentiis suis. Quare volo &c. T.T. cancellario, et Ricardo de Lucy, et Manas Biset dapifero, et Bernardo de S Walerico, et Willielmo de Bello-campo, apud Wygorniam.
- "The Cartulary of Worcester Cathederal Priory (Register I)", Darlington, Pipe Roll Society 1962-63, no. 144. The abstract reads:
Notification by Osbert fitz Hugh and Eustachia his mother that the monks had agreed to the making of a cemetary in Cotheridge and that the church of Worcester is to have the third sheaf of all tithe from the demesne of Great Cotheridge, and Osbert and Eustachia grant that freeholders in Cotheridge may give their bodies to the cemetary of Worcester provided that the church of Cotheridge loses none of its rights. c1140
- Complete Peerage, Volume 7, page 528, cites "Duchy of Lancaster, Royal Charters, no 14", in which the fees of Osbern son of Hugh (along with others) were excepted from a grant from King Stephen to Robert, earl of Leicester. This grant is dated to between 1139 and 1141. The fact that Osbern was holding the family lands, implies that his father Hugh, was dead by then.
Eyton, in his "Antiquities of Shropshire", vol 4, page 305
I have, as yet, not been able to look into this claim any further, but am satisfied that it is cited by different respected sources.
Dugdale's "Monasticon", volume 4, page 366, num XIII, sub Godestow Nunnery, contains an entry which reads:
Carta Osberti filii Hugonis de una Salina in Wichia.
[Ex Collect. Rob. Glover nuper Somerset heraldi]
Sciant præsentes et futuri quod ego Osbertus filius Hugonis dedi etconcessi sactimonialibus de Godestow salinam unam in Wichia, quæ appellatur Vacca, pertinentem ad menerium meum de Wichebalt, pro petitione domini Walteri de Clifford, et pro salute animæ uxoris suæ Marggaretæ, et animæ filiæ suæ Rosamundæ, quarum corpora ibidem requiescunt, et pro salute animæ meæ, &c. Hæc donation facta est assensu domini regis Henrici, et concessu Hugonis fratris mei. Hiis testibus, Waltero de Clifford, Ricardo filio suo, et Lucia filia sua, Willelmo de Hetona, &c.
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 263 reads:
[Precis:] Geva of Tenbury (Worcs.), daughter of Wm le Salvage, grants 4a in Cornwood (1172-85).
Sciant presentes et futuri quod ego Geva de Temetebur' filia Willielmi le Salvage, soro Ade le Salvage consensu et assensu Osberti filii Hugonis dedi et concessi et hac carta mea confirmavi in liberam et perpetuam elemosinam deo et ecclisie Sancte Johannis Evangeliste de Haghmon et canonicis ibidem deo servientibus quatuor acras terre in Cornewode tenedas cum omnibus pertinentiis suis in bosco et plano in pratis et pascuis in aquis et moris in viis et semetis et in omnibus locis integre libere et quiete ab omni seculari servicio et exaccione. Et quia ego Osbertus filius Hugonis volo et hec donacio dicte Geve rata et stabilis permaneat eam peticione dicte Geve que nullum sigillum habuit sigilli mei impressione confirmavi. Et ego Osbertus filius Hugonis et heredes mei dictis canonicis dictam donacionem warantizabimus contra omnes homines et feminas. Hiis testibus Hugone de Say, Roberto Stormy, Willelmo Karbunel, Roberto Wyards, et multis allis.
Date: after 1172 as this gift is not in the papal confirmation of that year (App A.i) but before Osbert fitz Hugh's death in 1185-6 (Pipe R. 32 Hen II, p 31)
Cornwood was in Knighton on Teme (Worcs. Cart. p 82n). Geva was the widow of Herbert of Tenbury (see no 265); Tenbury was part of the fee of the lands of Richard's Castle (VCH Worcs, iv, 365)
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 1298 reads:
Wichebode. Donacio molendini ibidem
[Precis:] Osbert son of Hugh grants Wychbold (in Dodderhill, Worcs) mill (1172-86).
Omnibus sancte matris ecclisie filius Osbertus filius Hugonis salutem. Noverit universitas vestra quod ego Osbertus dedi et concessi et hac mea carta confirmavi deo et sancte Marie et ecclisie sancti Johannis evangeliste de Haghmon et canonicis ibidem deo sevientibus pro salute anime mee et antecessorum meorum in perpetuam elemosinam molendinium de Wichebolde quod Robertus tenuit cum omnibus pertinentiis suis in terris in pratis is pascius in moltis in sectis in aquis in omnibus consuetudinibus ita libere et quiete ab omni seculari servicio ut aliquis antecessorum meorum illud melius vel plenius tenuit. Hiis testibus Ricardo capellano, Philippo Estahm, etc.
Date: after 1172 as it does not appear in the papal confirmation (App A i) but before 1186 (no 931n)
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 931 reads:
Richardes Castel, Donacio virgate terre ibidem.
[Precis:] Osbert son of Hugh grants a virgate which David held in Witebroc at Richard's Castle (c 1180.1186)
Omnibus sancte matris ecclisie filiis tam presentibus quam futuris Osbertus filius Hogonis salutem. Noverit universitas vestra quod ego Osbertus filius Hugonis concessi et dedi et in perpetuam elemosinam [f.171v] hac mea [carta] confirmavi ecclisie sante Johannis de Haghmon et canonicis ibidem deo servientibus pro salute anime mee patris et matris mee omniumque heredum meorum et amicorum unam virgatem terre apud Castellum Ricardi in Witebroc illam quam David tenuit cum omnibus pertinentiis et libertatibus et liberis consuetudinibus suis in bosco et plano in pratis pascuis et aquis liberam et quietam ab omni servicio seculari et exaccione. Quare volo et firmiter precipio nequis meorum in posterum predictos canonicos in aliquo super hoc vexare vel inquietare presumat. Hiis testibus Waltero Clifforde et Waltero filio euis. Hugone de Say, et Lucia uxore etc.
Date: before 1186 when the donor was succ. by Hugh de Say (Pipe R, 32 Hen II, p31) but not long before as Wal of Clifford II survived until 1221 (Rot. Fin. i, 59)
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 252 reads:
Coderugge. Donacio eiusdem.
[Precis:] Osbert son of Hugh grants to Matilda daughter of John Poer for the service of ¼ knight the village of Little Cotheridge (Worcs) except for ½ hide belonging to Hugh de Say. If she has an heir by Osbert or by a future husband, her descendants may hold the land by hereditary right; if not, she shall hold it for life. He also grants her the land which Wm of Overtune once held, this she may bequeath to whom she wishes, to be held from Osbert for an annual rent of one sore sparrowhawk or 2s. (before 1186)
Sciant tam presentes quam futuri quod ego Osbertus filius Hugonis concessione et assensu Hugonis de Say fratris et heredis mei dedi et concessi et hac mea carta confirmavi Maltildi (sic) filie Johannis Puheri pro suo servicio villam que vocatur Hugelmeston et alio nomine parva Coderugga cum omnibus pertinentiis suis et liberatibus in bosco et plano in pratis et pascuis in viis et semitis in aquis at molendinis sibi et heredibus suis tenendam de me et heredibus meis ita libere et quiete sicut ego ipse eam unquam melius tenui fasciendo quartam partam servicii unius militis pro eadem terram. Istam predictam terram dedi si integre preter dimidiam hidam quam Hugo de Say frater meus habet in Hugelmestun illam scilicet quam Orni tenet pro qua faciet regale servicium simul cum predicto menerio. Similiter dedi ei et concessi et hac ipsa carta confirmavi terram quam Willelmus de Overtune quandam tenuit cum omnibus pertinetiis suis in bosco et plano in pratis et pascuis ey in omnibusliberis consuetudinibus tali pacto et conditione quod si habuit heredem de me aut de viro sibi dispnsato teneat predictam villam sibi Hugelmestune et alio nomine parvam Coderuggam ipsam et heredes sui in perpetuam hereditatem eodem servicio et eadem libertate ut supradictum est. Et terram videlicet predicti Willelmi teneat in vita sua et post obitum eius1 redeat ad heredes meos. Et si illa non habuit heredem de me aut de viro sibi desponsato teneat predicta terras in vita sua et post obitum eius redeat parva Coderugga ad heredes meos. Et terra quam predictus Willelmus tenuit remaneat cuicumque ipsa voluerit in perpetuam hereditatem tenendam de me et heredibus meis libere et quiete ut supradictum est reddendo annautim unum sprevarium sorum vel duos solidos pre eadam terra ad festum sancti Petri quod dicitur ad vincula. Hiis testibus Hugone de Say, etc.2
Dudmaston MS. f.19r-v
2. add. witnesses: Johanne de Frusselu, Waltero de Poremort, Rogero le Puher, Willelmo fratre eius, Roberto Estun, Willelmo Carbunel, Petro de Greote, Willelmo de Wicentune, Roberto de Wiard, Petro de Wetemore, Ricardo capellano, Waltero diacano, Galfrido clerico, Rogero clerico, Rogero de Pantesbir', Thoma fratre euis, Galfrido Clavingo, Waltero de Mulestune, Roberto de Cliftune, Ricardo de Pultrebeche.
Date: before Osbert fitz Hugh's death (Pipe R. 32 Hen II, p31) but not many years earlier. John le Poer belonged to the family which held a knight's fee of the bishop of Hereford in Bishopstone (no 254; "The Red Book" ... of the Hereford Bishopric Estates (Camden 3rd ser. xii; Misc XV) p2; cf. "Red Book of the Exchequer", Rolls series, i. 278, 604) and was still alive in 1190 (Pipe R. 2 Ric I, 48).
Osbert fitz Hugh held a hide in Cotheridge of the bishop of Worcester (Red Book of Worcester(Worcs Hist Soc 1934-50), p57), which is referred to both as Little Cotheridge and Howelineston (ibid 40, 437). The latter is the modern village of Howson which must have formed part of Little Cotheridge (VCH Worcester, iv, 256n)
Matilda does not seem to have had any issue as Howson was held by Osbert fitz Hugh's descendants in the 13th century (Red Book, p40). William of Overtune's land she gave to Haughmond (no 254)
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 253 reads:
[Precis:] Hugh de Say confirms no 252 (15). (1186-1190)
Sciant tam presentes quam futuri quad ego Hugo de Say concessi et hac mea carta confirmavi donacionem quam dominus et frater meus Osbertus filius Hugonis dedit Matildi (sic) filie Johannis Puheri pro servicio suo in terra de Hugelmeston' et in terra quam Willelmus de Overtune tenuit eodem modo et eodem pacto et eodem servicio sicut carta prediciti fratris mei demonstrat et testatur. Et pro granto meo debit michi unum anulum aureum cum turcasio in aula Burefordie. Hiis testibus Johanne Fruisselu, Rogero le Puher, Willelmo fratre eius etc.1
Dudmaston MS. f.19v
1. Additional witnesses: Roberto Estun, Willelmo Carbonel, Waltero Poremort, Petro Greote, Roberto Wiard, Ricardo capellano, Rogero de Pantebir'.
Date: probably between Osbert fitz Hugh's death and Hugh de Say's (Pipe R. 2 Ric I, p48)
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 1299 reads:
Hugh de Say confirms his brother Osbert's gifts of Wychbold mill and a virgate it Witebroc at Richard's Castle, which David held. Hiis testibus Waltero de Clifford et Ricardo fratre eius1 (1186-90).
Dudmaston MS. f.18v
1. Additional witnesses (ibid): Gilberto Giffard, Rogero de Solers, Willelmo Carbonal, Achill' et Rogero fratre eius, Ricardo Capellano, Thoma capellano, Waltero clerico, Hugh Kettford.
Date: while Hugh de Say held Richard's Castle (no. 919n)
Dudmaston MS. f.10: Hugh de Say II (1190-7) confirms the above gifts and Rochford mill; hiis tesibus Waltero de Clifford, Ricardo fratre eius, Thoma capellano, Ricardo sacredote, Simone sac' et Galfrido patre euis, Baldwino de Bullers.
"The Cartulary of Haughmond Abbey", Shropshire Archaelogical Society, 1985, entry 932 reads:
Dimissio eiusdem ad feodi firman.
Abbot Alex, and the convent grant the messuage and virgate in Witebroc iuxta Catrum Ricardi, which Osbern de Say gave him, to Reg. of Richard's Castle and his heirs for an annual rent of 10s. If the rent is in arrears they may distrain Reg., his heirs, or assigns where and when they wish until full satisfaction is made. A heriot of 12d is due on the death of Reg., his heirs or assigns. (Sealed) (1253-c1260)
Date: during Alex's abbacy.
"Domesday Desendants", K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, 2002, page 933, contains the following entry:
Filius Osberti Filii Ricardi, Hugo
Son of Osbert fitz Richard Scrope, of Richard's Castle, and Nesta, daughter of Gruffyd. He married Eustachia de Say, by whom he left a son Osbert, who was apparently a minor when he succeeded his father c 1136/39, and a son Hugh, who succeeded his brother in 1185.
"Domesday Desendants", K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, 2002, page 912, contains the following entry:
Filius Hugonis, Osbern
Son of Hugh fitz Osbern fitz Richard, lord of Richard's Castle, Herefordshire, and Eustachia de Say. Succeeded his father some time after 1140. He took the name de Say. He died without issue in 1186 and was succeeded by his brother Hugh II (d.1190), Hugh II also named de Say, married Lucy, daughter of Walter I de Clifford.